Red tape as fire risk Tom Smith

This is really bad.  Arnold needs to get Cal Fire in line and straighten this aviation mess up.  What I hear from a law enforcement official is that it is all about the cozy relationship between Cal Fire and the private contractors who now provide most of the air support.  They don't want the competition from military aviation.

NOW it's a national story.

Comments

[Derek]

Do you know anything how wildfire suppression works? Just putting aircraft in the air is not only dangerous but a waste of taxpayer money. Rules are in place for a reason. Spotter planes are needed to lead less experienced Navy helicopters and aircraft to the correct line of the fire. Confusion happens often in the air, with many planes in the air and fire fighting resources on the ground. Coordination is key to be sure these air resources are used safely and effectively. And anyone saying these aircraft should have flown in those winds is just ignorant. Beside the danger of flying in it, water and Fos-chek become less effective in high wind situations.

[Gerg]

As a matter of fact, there is a Water dropping helicopter being loaded aboard a vessel in the Port of Los Angeles today-Destination Sydney Australia.

[smokejumper42]

I do. Been there and done that. You obviously never had to call in a retardant drop to save your crew. Spotter planes are needed, of course, but I think you are missing the overall point of the story. It is absolutely undisputed in the wildfire aviation community that the USFS has thrown massive roadblocks in the way of the use of foreign private contractors (Coulson, the Canadian Martin Mars company; They operate firefighting helicopters too), Evergreen - which has developed a 747 tanker with Boeing's help - and whomever it is that developed the DC-10 tanker airframe. Additionally, until some Congressmen stepped in about two years ago, USFS was going to relegate air tanker operations to crop dusters.

The bottom line is vast resources were ready, willing and able to mount a massive air attack on the Southern California fires. The assets weren't used.

If this was a one time problem, I might be a bit more understanding. But it's becoming a pattern, and one has to wonder why? I am sure those on the ground without houses might be asking that very question?

[Shana]

I am a SoCal native and have been through many, many "fire seasons" with these winds. Unless you live here, you don't know that these winds don't just build over the course of a couple of days, giving whoever and whatever the time to respond to the disaster they can cause. They begin immediately and blow hard. Imagine standing between two tall buildings. It's like that. Local weather forecasters start talking about the high pressure in Nevada creating a "Santa Ana Condition" and you know the wind is coming. SoCal probably gets about 5-8 bouts of these winds every year and I personally have NEVER experienced them to be as bad as they were this last week. And it's not a given that Santa Ana Winds = fire. The worst of the wind was Saturday night and Sunday, when these fires got started. Then they grew and multiplied, almost exponentially because of the conditions. I'm not a firefighter, but I do know it's not a safe job and they're going to have whatever measures necessary in place to secure firefighter safety. I can't imagine anyone flying in wind that high. I can't imagine them trying to work without a spotter telling them where to drop water and fire retardant. I think the Governator is right. We had a very unique set of circumstances this time. Two years ago, we had record rain, followed by lots of shrub growth, then two years of record drought. The Santa Anas this time were particularly hot, particularly dry (3% relative humidity, as dry as the Sahara), and particularly fast. These conditions occurred with immediate and practically simultaneous results. While we might all expect the possibility of fires when the Santa Anas blow, just like we know earthquakes are a part of life here, sometimes, you just can't know how the recipe is going to turn out. It's tragic and unfortunate, but I think finger pointing and blaming are useless.

[Donna Cox]

Has anyone bothered to check out a very real fact, about the helicopters and these fires. I did. I called and found out that helicopters are not put in the air if the winds are at 40 knots or about 42 mph. For regular aircraft it is 60 knots. WIND BLOWING--NO FLYING people. This wasn't a messup this was safety.
For the love of-- will people ever start checking facts before shooting off their big mouths, or intenet posts if you will.

[enemyofthepeople]

I, for one, bothered to read the linked article, which was just full o' facts.

Treading the fair use line, excerpts (emphasis mine) follow:

1. "It took as long as a day for Navy, Marine and California National Guard helicopters to get clearance early this week, in part because state rules require all firefighting choppers to be accompanied by state forestry "fire spotters" who coordinate water or retardant drops. BY THE TIME THOSE SPOTTERS ARRIVED, the powerful Santa Ana winds stoking the fires had made it too dangerous to fly."

2. "Indeed, winds reaching 100 mph helped drive the flames and made it exceedingly dangerous to fly. STILL, four state helicopters and two from the Navy WERE ABLE TO TAKE OFF MONDAY, WHILE NEARLY TWO DOZEN OTHERS STAYED GROUNDED"

3. "The spotters have 24 hours to report for duty, and it took nearly all that time for them and the National Guard crews to assemble. BY THE TIME THEY WERE READY TO GO, THE WINDS HAD MADE IT UNSAFE TO FLY."

And so, so much more.

For the love of--accuracy, I wish people would at least read the links.

I will be the first to say that the response this time was much better than in the Cedar fire. However, it is appalling that bureaucratic infighting has impeded progress in the area of clearly identified problems that were acknowledged 4 years ago.

Professor Smith, I have heard much the same thing from multiple sources. I tend to believe them.

Before this site gets overwhelmed with the PR offense, let me add this--in the after action reports, Calfire is going to discover that the worst mistake they made was to tell Paul Bloom (of KUSI) to go pound sand when he requested help to protect the station's transmitters. He and Turko are out for blood now, and THAT IS A FACT.

[enemyofthepeople]

Actually, I'm not sure which agency kissed him off, but Calfire will pay the price.

[Tom Smith]

Sometimes a journalist out for blood can be a very useful object.